Thinking about Marriage? Pay Attention to these Warning Signs!

In conducting the research for my new book (coming out on January 8), I asked a lot of younger people what they wanted to Choosing mateknow from long-married elders about how to live “happily ever after.” And one of their biggest questions was: How do I know someone is the right – or wrong – one for me? As they so often do, the elders have some great advice.

I’ll be blunt. Even though chosing a mate can seem incredibly complicated, the elders have one very simple rule for you

Don’t be dumb in choosing your partner!

Over and over, when it comes to marriage the elders point to decisions that completely ignore the evidence and show bad judgment. They believe there are a set of signs so strong and compelling that they tell you to get out of the relationship. However all too many people ignore the clear warnings and get married — and, the elders tell us, live through a horrendous period (or even an entire married life), suffering the consequences of that dumb decision.

Sifting through hundreds of responses, I learned about four warning signs that should make you very reluctant to commit to a relationship. Most people know these signs are wrong — but hope that they can change their partner or that they won’t matter. The elders say this self-delusion is a huge mistake. And please note: For those of you already in a relationship, these warnings still apply. They are a diagnostic tool for deciding whether your marriage needs a fix (or an exit strategy).

Warning Sign # 1: Violence toward you of any kind

Yes, this point may seem obvious. But I have to put it first and foremost, because entering marriage after experiencing dating violence is still shockingly common, despite decades of warnings from researchers, physicians, and counselors.

On this issue, the elders are unequivocal: If your partner hits you or tries to hurt you in any way, get out. If it happens while you are dating, they firmly state, it will happen in your marriage. As Joan, age 84, put it

Don’t ever, ever get involved with somebody who is abusive at all physically, because you are asking for trouble. They may say that they are going to change and you may think that you will change them – News flash: you are not going to. I tried changing him and I gave up and left. I don’t care how many times person tells you they’re sorry and they’re never going to do that again. I think you find that they do.

I could spend a long time offering you detailed accounts from the elders who made the mistake of marrying someone who had been violent toward them, only to have the physical abuse escalate after marriage. But you probably know it already – make sure to act on it.

Warning Sign # 2: Explosive and Unexplained Anger while Dating

The elders assert that a huge warning sign is explosive and unreasonable anger. They tell you to beware of a person who seems to “get angry over nothing” or “has a bad temper” — anyone whose anger is disproportionate to the situation.

Most important, be aware that these outbursts initially may not be directed toward you. During courtship, they say, people are can keep their anger toward their prospective partner under control. Therefore, you need to look carefully at how he or she responds to frustrating situations and to other people. Annette, 76, dodged a bullet with a man she was getting serious about. She told me:

I dated someone and I was in the subway with him in the city, and we missed the train because we were on the wrong side of the platform. We were walking up the stairs and he took a whole bunch of change out of his pocket and he said some terrible things and threw all of his money down the stairs because he was very angry that we had missed the train. And when that happened, I looked at that person and I said: “This is not a person I want to spend my life with!”

It only was a minute, but you know, it was very telling. You can tell what kind of a person a person is if you miss your plane, if you lose your luggage, if you are caught outside on a rainy day, or something like that. In those stressful situations if they’re going to just stand there and curse up a storm or throw something, ask yourself if want to spend your life with a person with those coping skills.

In fiction and film, someone like this can be attractive in a dangerous way. But in the elders’ long experience, anger that can’t be explained or controlled — even if directed toward others or toward inanimate objects — is a warning sign that can’t be ignored.
Warning Sign 3: Dishonesty — in things large and small

Everyone tells little white lies (in answer to things like “Do these pants make me look fat?”). But the elders say pay careful attention to someone who is dishonest. Clearly, dishonesty to you is a probably deal-breaker. As Pamela, 91, warns:

All the sudden not coming home. Lying about where they’ve been or been with or what they’ve been doing. Secret phone calls. All kinds of things like that. Trust is a big issue and once you lose that, it’s very difficult to regain. You might put it on the back burner but you’re always going to be suspicious.

The elders also suggest you look for even small kinds of dishonesty in your potential mate. Does he or she cheat on tests? Take small items from work? Routinely lie his or her way out of situations? They believe that these are all warning signs of dishonesty that will spill eventually into your relationship.

Warning Sign 4: Sarcasm and Teasing

The problem with these two behaviors is that they are often portrayed as “just in fun.” When you get angry in response, you are accused of “not having a sense of humor.” The elders advise you to beware of anyone who engages in mean-spirited sarcasm or whose teasing crosses the border into aggression.

Barbara, age 70, left her first husband after a few years because she sensed the dark side that lurked behind his sarcasm:

Pay attention to behavioral signs. Somebody who is persistently, consistently, always sarcastic and critical, that should have been a warning sign to me that I was dealing with somebody who couldn’t function very well in the world. So I think that’s something that a young person can look for — this profound kind of sarcasm.

Margaret, age 90, had to reach an agreement with her husband to end teasing in their relationship. She told me:

Teasing is very dangerous. Teasing is like bullying. It demeans the other person, that kind of mocking behavior. It’s supposed to be kidding, but it’s a good warning sign, because it really devalues the other person.

Sometimes love and marriage seem incredibly complicated. But a great thing about talking with the elders is they make it simple and crystal clear: Far too many people make a dumb decision in choosing a mate, and live to regret it for years. By avoiding these four dangerous traps, you can make an intelligent decision — and one that increases your chances of living happily ever after.

For more information on the book and on the Marriage Advice Project, please visit the website, like the project on Facebook, and follow on Twitter:@karlpillemer.

30 Lessons for Loving Update: Reviews, Giveaways, and More!

Nothing is more exciting for an author than anticipating a new book coming out. And 30 Lessons for Loving: Advice from the photoWisest Americans on Love, Relationships, and Marriage will be out in a little over a month (January 8). There’s a lot of attention and activity starting already.

First, visit our great new website for the Marriage Advice Project. Check out the video on the new book, connect to our Youtube channel with videos of elders sharing their lessons on love, relationships, and marriage, and add your own lessons for loving.

Second, here’s your chance to get a free copy! There’s a giveaway on Goodreads between now and December 8. Enter to win a free copy of the book, hot off the press.

Third, every writer fears those early reviews, so it was a thrill to read this advance review from Publisher’s Weekly. The reivewer perfectly captured the aims of the book:

Gerontologist Pillemer shares findings from his survey of 700 people in “very long marriages” (the shortest here have lasted three decades, the longest, more than five) for tips on maintaining successful long-term relationships. The respondents, charmingly called “the experts” by Pillemer, share “storehouses of invaluable lived experience” on areas including questions to ask yourself before settling down, domestic violence, and late-in-life sex. Communication is discussed at length via six lessons, including being polite to your partner within “the comfortable informality of married life” and choosing the appropriate time for serious conversations. The experts break down conflict by examining the “five major stressors” that affect most relationships, with rules for dealing with the in-laws and properly delegating household labor. In addition to summarizing his survey’s results, Pillemer shares the experts’ own words. One respondent describes divorcing her husband and remarrying him 64 years later, while an 88-year-old “rough and tumble” Korean War veteran suggests taking an interest in your partner’s preferred activities, remarking, “I went to operas. Operas!” The benefits of such a comprehensive study incorporating so many years of experience should be ample, for newlyweds and contemporaries of the respondents alike. The advice is astute, fresh, and well selected by Pillemer. This book would serve as an excellent gift for newlyweds.

Stay tuned for more announcements as we count down to January 8 (including a surprise media appearance…)!

Use Thanksgiving to Gather Your Elders’ Wisdom!

Once again this year, I’m proposing a new holiday. Or rather, a new use for an old holiday. I believe that we should make Thanksgiving the day when we celebrate elder wisdom by asking older people to tell us their advice for living. Here’s why.

Occasionally, the question runs through younger people’s minds (whether they admit it or not): What are old people good for? Our society’s unremitting ageism portrays older persons as sick, frail, unproductive, and even the culprits for busting the federal budget.

Earlier retirement and increased residential separation of older people has broken age-old contacts between the generations. Indeed, our society has become extraordinarily segregated by age, such that young people’s contact with elders is almost exclusively within the family (and even that is limited). Combined with the persistently negative images in the media, this question – What good are old people? – lurks in the background.

But the answer is amazingly simple. For as long as humans have been humans, older people have played critically important roles as advice-givers. Indeed, anthropological research shows that survival in pre-literate societies was dependent on the knowledge of the oldest members. It’s easy to forget that it is only in the past 100 years or so that people have turned to anyone other than the oldest person they knew to solve life’s problems.

Now here’s the important point: Old people are still a unique source of advice for living for younger people. And we need to tap this source much more vigorously than we are currently doing — both for young people’s sake and that of our elders. That’s why I’m proposing that we make learning elder wisdom a part of our families’ Thanksgiving holiday.

We often do ask our elders to tell their life stories. But that activity is very different from asking their advice. You don’t just want their reminiscences; what’s truly valuable are the lessons they learned from their experience and that they wish to pass on to younger generations.

Now for the holiday. Thanksgiving is something most Americans celebrate, regardless of religious persuasion. And it’s the one time in the year when families are most likely to gather — and include their older relatives. What if we all take a half hour (okay, it can be before or after the football game) to consult our elders about their lessons for living?

Your children are the best ones to start this conversation and they can ask questions that are highly relevant to them. Is Sammy concerned about bullying? Some elders (especially immigrants) were ferociously bullied as children. Is Pat concerned about finding the right partner? You have elders who have long experience in relationships, but who are rarely asked for their advice about them. Are your college kids worried about the job market? If so, how about advice from people who went through the Great Depression?

Remember that this is different from asking Grandpa “What did you do in World War II?” or Grandma “What was life like in the Depression?” The goal is to genuinely and interestedly ask for advice: “What lessons for living did you learn from those experiences?” Taking this approach elevates the role of elders to what they have been through most of the human experience: counselors and advisers to the less-experienced young.

Give it a try on Thanksgiving (and let me know how it went!). Here are some questions to get you started; it can help to send these in advance to your elders so they can ponder them a bit. We’ve used these questions in interviews with hundreds of elders in the Legacy Project, and they work very well). More information is available in the book 30 Lessons for Living.

So let’s declare Thanksgiving (or a part of it) Elder Advice-Giving Day. Our elders won’t be here forever, so this year is a good time to start!

Questions for the elders:

  • What are some of the most important lessons you feel you have learned over the course of your life?
  • Some people say that they have had difficult or stressful experiences but they have learned important lessons from them. Is that true for you? Can you give examples of what you learned?
  • As you look back over your life, do you see any “turning points”; that is, a key event or experience that changed over the course of your life or set you on a different track?
  • What’s the secret to a happy marriage?
  • What are some of the important choices or decisions you made that you have learned from?
  • What would you say you know now about living a happy and successful life that you didn’t know when you were twenty?
  • What would you say are the major values or principles that you live by?

Add your own! And ask your elders!

Want to Be Independent Later On? Elder Wisdom Says: Save Now!

It’s a pleasure to share a guest blog by our third summer intern, Zoe Eisenberg. Zoe is a sophomore financial independenceat Ithaca College. She is majoring in gerontology and plans to minor in Legal Studies. Zoe was excited to learn from the elders themselves through the Legacy Project’s in-depth interviews. This lesson about the role of financial planning in maintaining independence throughout life came from Richard, age 68.

Here’s Zoe’s post:

Independence is a value held dearly by many, and it is something that we often express without thinking twice. During my interview with Richard, the importance of independence in his life stood out as a recurring theme and valuable lesson.

Richard grew up in an environment that encouraged independence. His father died at a young age, and within his small family he was expected to be responsible for himself. As a young man, he traveled extensively while serving in the army and working in the computer industry. Though Richard was married briefly, he never had children and he pointed to this as one of the reasons he continued to lead such an independent life throughout middle age.

When reflecting on the choices that have allowed him to maintain his independent lifestyle, Richard emphasized the importance of saving financially for one’s future:

That’s why it’s important to think about your future, and think about money, and think about saving. Don’t get into debt, save for your retirement at an early age. I wish I would have known that. I didn’t really start until I was in my 50’s, you should start when you’re in your 20’s.

 

If I had done it at 20, I’d be a millionaire. I did it at 50 so I’m a “thousandaire.” It’s a huge difference. And you don’t know when your life is going to be over – Plan for the longest time. Start saving! And then do things you want to do.

Today, Richard is adapting to new levels of interdependence as he manages health challenges that have limited his mobility. However, his determination to be self-sufficient to the greatest extent possible is fueling his recovery and adaptation to changing circumstances. Valuing independence continues to serve Richard well – and careful financial planning is one way to do it.

Beverly’s Marriage Advice: “Be in Like!”

We are so proud of the interns who worked with us over the past summer! This post comes from Madeline Weinfeld, backview of senior couple looking over the seaa junior at Cornell University majoring in Human Development and minoring in Business. She reports that she truly enjoyed every interview she conducted during the internship and applies the lessons she learned to her life today. The exoerience helped Madeline realize how important and valuable elders are, and also how important it is that people work in this field. Madeline is excited to be back at school where she can help educate her peers and make Cornell’s campus more aware of both the risk and resiliency within the aging population.

 Madeline shares a lesson she learned from on wise elder: Friendship is critically important in marriage:

Beverly, age 87 is an incredibly upbeat and optimistic lady. She was a pleasure to talk to and was really excited to be able to share some of her life experiences and expertise. Of all of the stories she shared and the memories she recalled, Beverly was most confident and enthusiastic about the importance of family in her life. In particular, she was especially passionate about her remarkable relationship with her late husband.

Right now, I’m widowed. I’ve been widowed for over 20 years. My husband was only 66. He was my childhood boyfriend, lover, friend, everything. And we had a wonderful, wonderful marriage.

Beverly never re-married, and even though she had lost her husband so long ago, you could still sense the love she had for him. I was intrigued by her seemingly unconditional love for a man she had known since childhood. When I asked her what advice she had for having a long and happy marriage, Beverly shared original advice that made perfect sense. She said:

Always find someone who can be your best friend. It is always better to be in like than in love. Love does change. Yes, it stays with you, but it does change. Like never changes. And that is what helps marriages last, to be in like.

This idea of being “in like” is so simple, yet I think it is often neglected in forming relationships because it is so easy to get caught up in the exciting thrill of infatuation. Beverly was confident that being “in like” was the most necessary component when finding a partner with whom you will one day create a family of your own.

Goodbye to a Wise Elder – And Thanks for the Marriage Advice!

Over the course of the Legacy Project, we’ve talked to hundreds of elders, asking them about lessons for living they would like tobluesky pass down to younger people. In the interviews, I often feel a deep connection to respondents, especially over the course of a long conversation about profound and personal topics.

So one of the hardest parts of this project is when I learn of their passing. News will trickle in that one of these sages in our midst has died, and despite their age, I always feel surprised and saddened that this particular light has gone out. But I am also grateful that I was able to record their practical wisdom so younger people can use it.

Antoinette Watkins was one such elder. Her advice for a happy marriage is featured in my forthcoming book 30 Lessons for Loving: The Wisest Americans Advice onLove, Relationships, and Marriage. Then age 81, Antoinette had overcome troubled early years in her marriage and achieved a warm, loving relationship with her husband of 55 years.

Her lesson for younger people is that to keep the spark alive throughout a long relationship, you must make a habit of doing small, positive things. That’s what keeeps a relationship warm, supportive, and fun.

I have never forgotten this suggestion from Antoinette – and one I try to personally practice (not always successfully, but I try!).

There is one practical piece of advice I have givenn to my children. This is just one little jewel that I passed along to them. And that’s when you wake up in the morning, think: “What can I do to make his day or her day just a little happier?”  The idea is that you need to  to turn toward each other and  focus on the other person,  even just for that five minutes when you first wake up. It’s going to make a big difference in your relationship.

She taught me that the build-up of such simple, positive gestures can transform a marriage. And this is why we should be sure to ask our elders for advice about things like love and marriage.

 

 

3 Secrets to a Long Marriage – From Those Who Made It

In our society, we have a paradox. Most people want to get married and there is considerable research evidence that marriage has abackview of senior couple looking over the sea wide range of benefits. But too often, the joy that accompanies the wedding celebration turns sour, and nearly half of couples who stand at the altar in hopeful excitement find themselves starting over after the trauma of divorce.

I was particularly interested in long-married elders’ advice about finding a life partner and staying married. In my new book, 30 Lessons for Loving (coming out this January), I surveyed 700 older Americans for their advice.

Here are three major (and somewhat surprising) lessons from the elders for finding a life partner and staying together “as long as you both shall live.”

Marry Someone a Lot Like You

I asked hundreds of elders what is most important for a long and happy marriage and their advice was just about unanimous: Opposites may attract, but they don’t make for great and lasting marriages. Based on their long experiences both in and out of love relationships, their first lesson is this: You are much more likely to have a satisfying marriage for a lifetime when you and your mate are fundamentally similar. And the most important thing to look for is similarity in your core values.

Take Emma Sylvester, who at 87 has been married for 58 years. As she put it with a smile, “It’s quite an achievement.”

I didn’t know it when I got married, but in retrospect I know it’s important to have the same basic values. In other words, if you’re a free spender, marry somebody who understands that. If you’re frugal, you need to marry somebody who understands that, because money is one of the stumbling blocks in marriages. And fortunately we had the same values on most things. Because of this, we really didn’t argue. And we really didn’t agonize over things. We came to our decisions by just realizing that we had usually the same goals. We both believed in education. We wanted to be moral according to society’s standards, to raise our children to be good citizens, and to be responsible in terms of finances.

Arguments emerge over apparently trivial issues, the elders told us, because they really reflect underlying values. Whether the wife purchases an expensive golf club or the husband a new electronic toy is not the core issue in what can become a monumental fight, but rather the deeper attitude toward what money means and whether the financial interests of the couple are more important than indulging an individual whim.

The elders urge people committing to a relationship to ask the question: Do we believe the same things in life are important? If problems develop in the relationship, these experts on long marriages say that value differences are likely to be at the heart of the problem.

Never Expect Your Partner to Change after Marriage

What about taking a leap of faith on the marriage under the assumption that you can change your partner after you’re married? The elders were as clear about this possibility as can be: Forget about it. According to them, entering into a marriage with the goal of changing one’s partner is a fool’s errand.

Rosie Eberle, 80 and happily married for 56 years, had a blunt comment to make about the entering into a marriage expecting to change one’s partner: “It’s just plain stupid.” She went on:

For heaven’s sake, don’t say “Oh, he’s this way now but he won’t always be like that.” Because they usually are, and you have to be careful, that’s all. So don’t marry someone and then think, “Oh, well he’ll change.” Or “I’m going to change him.” Believe me, it doesn’t happen. But people get real stubborn, and believe that can change a person later on, which never works.

Friendship Is as Important as Love

When asked the question: “What’s the secret to a long, happy marriage such as yours?” a common answer from people in long marriages was: “I married my best friend.” Similarly, from those whose marriages did not succeed, I often heard: “Well, we were good at love, but we never learned how to be friends.”

This response sounds peculiar, given that we are schooled in our culture to differentiate between friendship and romantic love. Indeed, television shows like “Will and Grace” and “Sex and the City” popularize the view that cross-sex friendship works best (or only) when one of the friends is gay. We see friends and spouse as two separate social categories that have different functions.

In contrast, the elders say that the special qualities of friendship are exactly what you want in your marriage. We typically look forward to being with friends, we relish their company, we relax with them, we share common interests and we talk openly. In contrast, we all encounter people who do not feel they can talk easily to their spouse (next time you are out for a fancy dinner, observe the couples who manage only a few uncomfortable words over two hours). What the elders suggest is that you look for the qualities of a friend — the capacity to comfortably “hang out” — in the person you choose to marry. As one 87-year old told me: “Think back to the playground when you were a child. Your spouse should be that other kid you would most like to play with!”

According to the elders, all marriages have to undergo a transition from the initial thrill of romantic attraction and — many were honest about it — overwhelming sexual desire to the stages when other things must become as or more significant. After being swept off one’s feet by true love, the elders caution you to ask “What’s next?” Will you wake up next to the same person for five or six decades and still find a person you like as well as love?

Patty Banas, 80, made a go of a first marriage when young, divorced, and then “got it right” in her very happy second marriage. She had one recommendation:

Be sure that you’re really good friends. That is the most important thing. All this — all the romance and the bells and the whistles and stuff is all very nice but it doesn’t last. Be sure that you’re really, very good friends.

As a relationship is moving into a serious phase, a question couples can and should discuss is: If we weren’t in love, would be friends? And when we move to something other than heart-thumping passion, what is there that will keep us together? (Hint: The answer should not be kids.) The answer is friendship, and if you don’t have it, don’t get married — it’s that simple.

Marriage will probably never go out of style in our culture. Why? There’s no more evocative summation than that from Ellie Banks, the mother of the most famous June bride of all in the 1950s film classic Father of the Bride:

“Oh, Stanley. I don’t know how to explain. A wedding. A church wedding. Well it’s, it’s what every girl dreams of. A bridal dress, the orange blossoms, the music. It’s something lovely to remember all the rest of her life.”

But after the bouquet is thrown and the last grain of rice is swept up, the realistic approach of those who have experienced decades of marriage can help us make our unions last.

George’s Lesson for Living – Blog from Our Summer Intern

Our summer interns are back! Three great undergraduates spent part of the summer interviewing older people about their advice for living. Here’s the post from Ryan, a rising senior attending York College at the City University of New York, majoring in Gerontological Studies and Services and minoring in Black Studies. He learned an important lesson about making the most of one’s life – travel!

Vacations are great opportunities to escape. They allow for time to de-stress from all of the work and anxieties left back at home.Welcome-Interns-Sign When traveling, though, perhaps more significant than what you leave behind is where you go. Retirement provides a great opportunity for traveling, but there is something to be said about traveling at a young age. When George, 73, was asked about a turning point in his life, he did not have to think twice for an answer:

When I left General Motors, before I went into teaching, I decided I was going to take my retirement. And at the time I was perhaps 35 at the most. So I decided I was going to retire. And I took that time to travel. And I traveled throughout Europe, North Africa and parts of the Middle East. And that changed my life a great deal, because it taught me a lot about cultures and the value of having the experience of other cultures and to compare cultures and to see how other people lived and how they did things. And I’ve been pursuing travel ever since then. And that was one of the key turning points in my life, probably when I was about 35, and determined that I wanted to retire to see what retirement would be like in the future. A weird choice, but I’ve always been a little weird.

When I went into the classroom, I went in telling students, ‘If you don’t travel, you don’t become educated.’ Because to be educated you gotta have a whole panorama of experiences and those aren’t going to come from home. Especially when I got to teach in New Jersey, where kids had not even left the state. Had never even left the state and were in college. And that was kind of sad to me that they had nothing, no point of reference in which to place things, you know? And so that was kind of sad and scary and so I’ve always preached ‘Travel is the second part of education.

As I get closer and closer to graduation, George’s suggestion to travel becomes more and more appealing!

Lesson for Parenting Adult Children: Be Careful about Giving Advice

One thing we often forget is that parents and children spend the majority of their livesadult children together after the kids become adults! The elders in the Legacy Project had very useful advice for negotiating relationships between parents and their adult children. Two elders share their lessons for negotiating this very important, but sometimes touchy, relationship.

Marv, 83, successfully raised two children. He points out that all the stress of child-rearing doesn’t end when they become adults:

I think to a certain extent your offspring are always children. One always wants one’s children to be happy, and I suppose it’s the most disturbing thing for parents is when they can’t see happiness in their adult children’s lives or their children’s relationships or  in their marriages.You worry about aspects of their interactions with their partners and when you can see that the way they’re interacting is not productive. You worry about your children. When they’re adults, you worry about as much when they’re adults as when they were not adults.

Of course, one outgrowth of this worry is the desire to give advice. Charles recommends that it it possible to advise children, but that the approach must be subtle.

I think giving advice requires great subtlety. Well, your adult children sometimes ask you for advice, and sometimes it becomes clear that they are not looking for advice, they’re simply looking for understanding of their points of view. So I think it’s easy for children to misinterpret your real feelings about them, and feel more pressure than one thinks they should be feeling. It’s up to the parent to be subtle enough that you are able to refrain from expressing your attitudes, so that the child feels intruded upon, or that you are judging.

Renata, 79, focused on accepting adult children as they are:

With our kids now, there’s good feeling, good relationship. You keep your mouth shut. We made out mistakes, we let them make their mistakes. But I don’t give advice unless they really ask for it. . I feel I can say most anything I want, except I would not interfere with them, even though I see something that I think should be done differently, I wouldn’t express it.

I think some parents expect too much of their kids. I think you have to accept what your kids are willing to do for you and not complain because they don’t do more for you. I think you just have to sort of give them freedom to live their lives knowing that they’re there if you need them and they know you’re there if they need you. So I think you have to stand back.

Any advice for getting along with your adult children? What’s worked for you?

New Interview on the Legacy Project and Book!

I had a great time talking with Terry Jaymes yesterday on his show “Terry Jaymes Alive.” Terry has been a great supporter of the Legacy Project and has helped spread the work on the importance of elder wisdom. In the interview, we talk about key lessons learned from older people (including how they learn to “kick out the jerks” from their social lives as they age). Take a listen here – and we TerryJaymeslook forward to your comments!